Bud, I see in your posting that you have experience with Imron. I have
some paint damage on my red GP4. It's painted with Imron and I have some
of the original paint from the builder. Is it possible for a skilled
painter to blend in with the existing paint or am I faced with having the
whole wing painted. Thanks, Paul
On Thu, Jul 13, 2023 at 12:37=AFPM Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com> wrote
:
>
> Chris,
> I've used Imron and Imron industrial on my planes for 20 years and I love
> and hate the paint.
> As 51 commented, I too made the mistake of painting urethane without
> proper ventilation/protection back in the 80s. Nasty stuff. I was lucky
,
> as soon as I realized I was "poisoned" I ran out of the booth and stopped
> trying to paint without proper equipment. I will occasionally paint in t
he
> shop (like one wing top) with only a good mask and lots of ventilation, b
ut
> I am extremely careful now.
>
> Orange peel and urethane are inseparable. You are right, there are
> degrees of orange peel. Some are visible but when you run your hand over
> the skin, it squeaks and feels slick. That kind of orange peel is fine
> with me.
> When Johnny (my painter) was still able, he could shoot even industrial
> Imron dead smooth. He used a Binx #7 and moved extremely fast and steady
> laying a light wet coat at about 30 PSI, followed by a medium at 70 PSI
> then the final at 120 PSI. The paint cloud was horrible, but he could ge
t
> it smooth just about every time. Once cured on top to the touch, he woul
d
> mist the plane with water. Keeping the paint cool or it would orange pee
l
> in the hot Florida days. He said the key was a good 150 PSI compressor
> that put out cool dry air. An air conditioned paint booth was a must in
> Florida. A gun that atomizes extremely well, and of course good techniqu
e
> and overlap consistency. (At his home he painted at night in the cool fa
ll
> and used water to cool the paint.) Once the government forced him to go
to
> HVLP guns, he never got the technique down again. Using the HVLP guns
> (DeVilbiss mostly) the Imron serious orange peel started us cutting and
> buffing for a week on the last !
> few planes he did for me. He and his guys could clear coat pretty well
> with today's car base coat clear coat urethanes with the HVLP but on old
> style high solids urethanes, it remained a challenge. I've seen Aerothan
e
> go on smooth using an HVLP with 1.3 nozzle and it was still a bit lumpy
> without reducing, but not bad so they seem to be doing it right. However
,
> Johnny's guys did not like Aerothane as they never got the settings right
> (of course they never read instructions either). For that much money per
> gallon it should go on perfectly. The only car paint I've ever put on an
> airplane was a brand called Autobaun from Germany. It was a very nice
> paint. Expensive but still not as hard and wear resistant as Imron or
> aircraft quality paints.
>
> Imron, like most urethanes is so sensitive to flash, temperature and gun
> settings that it would orange peel just looking at it. If the air supply
> isn't dry, the humidity and temp controlled in the booth and the part als
o
> cool I can't do a nice HVLP job. The factory rep came to the body shop a
nd
> he couldn=99t get the Imron industrial not to orange peel. Dupont
called for
> a first coat of medium wet using a 1.1 nozzle. Then two more medium wet
> coats. The aileron looked like a golf ball finish. We found like A51
> said, doing it on the flat with a HVLP with a larger nozzle helped on the
> thicker paints. I can't emphasize enough that these aircraft paints like
> to go onto a cool surface (70F or so) and prefer cool air or they flash.
I
> got rid of my turbine gun years ago because of the heat they added. I he
ar
> reducers help but in my experience, keep it cool and let it cure at 75F o
r
> below overnight.
>
> Cutting and buffing became a way of life for paint finishers with urethan
e
> if you wanted that glass finish. I've even tried adding the roller
> additive we used on boats for roll and tipping, and a reducer which cut t
he
> orange peel somewhat, but it was still somewhat there.
>
> I hate doing the labor, but if you put enough paint on, then cut and buff
> starting with 800 wet sanded on significant orange peel then 1000, 1200,
> 1500, 2000, 3000, 4000 changing pads frequently and then buffing at low
> speed with fine compounds, you can get a glass finish in only a weeks wor
th
> of work. If you put on the paint very thick here in Florida's summer hea
t
> and try to cut it, you can often see microscopic air bubbles in the paint
> if it dried too fast on top and trapped the air in the paint. In that
> case, wet sand all the way down to the primer and start over.
>
> When it is done well, it sure does look pretty once polished out. Proble
m
> is we don't do it often enough to get the learning curve firmly set in ou
r
> brain. So, today, once it dries, I'm back to cut and buff. I'm still no
t
> motivated to paint the top of my wing delamination repair. Primer sure
> looks good, but I've got to scuff the top, tape and drape and get psyched
> up to finish this project.
>
> Best Regards,
> Bud Yerly
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <
> owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com> On Behalf Of Area-51
> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2023 3:52 AM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Making an Europa pretty
>
> goldsteinindustrial@gmail.com>
>
> All valid and wise... It's an aircraft, not a static show pony at the
> hotrod meet where guys debate near useless aspects of OCD cosmetic
> indulgence found nowhere else except in the fashion industry.
>
> And it is white.
>
> There are actually some paint guys that can get a glass mirror finish off
> the gun. All they do is top coat paint and nothing else; and they sure
> charge for it. They number very few. In the olden days brushes were of th
e
> finest sable and the pot of paint was heated to get the paint to flow out
> flat; then it was all finished in wax.
>
> Orange peel is controlled by several factors; the pressure exiting the
> nozzle, the amount of paint metering through the nozzle, the flash time
> factored by the amount of reducer/extender added in the mix, temperature
> and stability while inside the booth. The longer the flash time the more
> the paint will flatten out, partly why rotisseries are used, but the more
> opportinity for dust, runs and bugs to ruin the show. What ever panel can
> be laid flat the better.
>
> Flow coating clear will build the depth illusion; not really noticeable o
n
> white unless it has a fleck or pearl factor in the base coat. And it will
> turn slightly yellow as it ages. Not really necessary. Better off going f
or
> three to four coats of base colour and leaving it to cure if it meets the
> grade.
>
> I painted a car in a home made garage booth with Glasurit system in 1987;
> it was a great finish straight off the gun and never got cut or buffed. 3
5
> years after it still looked as good as the day it was assembled with just
a
> wash chamois and wax. And was ill with mild cyanide poisoning for the fir
st
> two enjoyable years. =C3=B0=C5=B8=CB=9C=C5-
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=511092#511092
>
>
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