Raimo, I like the Smartass because it is simple, cheap and very
effective, but any device giving warnin of impending stall coming at you
through you headset in a way you cannot ignore is good. Certainly it
should be related to angle of attack rather than raw speed, but Smartass
is g compensated so that its trigger levels are effectively the same as
if measuring AOA, since there is a precise mathematical relationship
between air speed, g forces and AOA. The AOA systems I have come across
cost the wrong side of 1000 and are complex to fit, whilst Smartass
costs 200 and is dead simple to fit. It also for good measure reminds
you to put the gear down!. The standard Europa stall warner with a
buzzer in the head rest is in my experience next to useless and has no
doubt been wingeing almost inaudibly (to the ageing ear equipped with
the latest ANR headsets) in all the (significant number) of Europa stall
spin accidents.
How many fatal accidents are you aware of where an ELT saved the day?
That is where the pilot survive the landing was unable to summon help
and died before help arrived but could have been saved had he been found
within a few hours. No doubt there are some, but I cannot recall any.
Regards, David
On 2017-11-02 11:12, Raimo Toivio wrote:
> Hi David,
>
> this is fun.
>
> ELT is an interesting question. Maybe there are few landings where you are not
either dead or able to use a PLB in UK.
> But in Finland, by statistically, most landings are succesfull ie you are
> alive
and you are able to use your PLB if you like so.
> I assume we are talking about forced landings.
> Personally I would launch my PLB when airborne and well before contacting the
earth.
>
> Smart ass is a nice gizmo, but do we really need it (if we are real Pilots)?
> If it really were so lifesaver, I assume it would be mandatory in every ac.
> Should you consider also a stick shaker?
> Personally I do like my Angle of Attack -system
> (you know its an essential equipment if you wanna land your fighter to the
> deck
of your aircraft carrier...).
> Actually thats the only way to really know whats happening right now and how
far or how close you are from stalling situation.
> Angle of Attack is everything. Speed is nothing, as well as weight, temp, air
density or your very personal size. Just AofA!
>
> Also, my Europas original EA stall warner (audio-visual /horn and a giant
> hight
bright blue led in the field of view) works also satisfactorily.
> However, I have seen it only when Im stalling by purpose and every time just
before touch down.
> BTW I have always used 70 knots during the final until on the ground effect.
> Also, when landing to my strip 12/30, total lenght 300 metres.
>
> David, 2018 is coming soon. I will start to prepare my lakeside Sauna for you.
> Yes, we should really get into a "Mines bigger than yours sort of argument".
> Thats easier to verify in sauna if I call couple of Ladies to join us.
> Or should you bring one for you from UK?
>
> I have discussed this thing many times with girls.
> Maybe yours is a little longer than mine (40 mn means 6%).
> Then you count UK not England and in that case I could count Sweden-Finland...
> However, girls arguments that the lenght is nothing - only TTS (The Total
> Size)
matters!
>
> Your area /size (UK) is 242.000 km (England only 130.000 km).
> My area /size (Finland) is 338.000 km.
> So, mine is significantly larger (40%).
> So far, most girls have been here with me happy.
>
> Your total population is about 65.000.000 persons and we have 5.500.000.
> That means you David have 3.700 m of UK and I have 61.500 m of Finland.
> That means mine is actually almost 17 times bigger than yours.
>
> This is also argument for ELT & PLB; it is 17 times more valuable here than in
UK an average.
> I am pretty sure you do agree this.
>
> This land is so atractive that little Russians have tried to get it many
> times,
> but we have pushed them back quite easily every time and will do it again if
necessary.
> Thats easy because Finnish Airforce have had and have the most succesfull
> pilots
in the world
> (pls read the statistics around WWII).
>
> "So few have not been ever so thankful to so few"
>
> I hardly can wait your comments and also sauna test match FIN-UK with girls.
>
> Cheers,
> Raimo
> Finland
> OH-XRT
>
> PS: I checked my Europas logbook; actually I have logged 600 flight hours and
800 landings since 2007
> (this year unfortunately none w RT, but 50 hours by C172 OH-CVK and LamcoCub
OH-U666 + one hour in a hot Air Balloon "Finland 100-years" OH-FIN")
>
> davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk kirjoitti 2.11.2017 klo 11:09:
>
> Raimo, Yes of course I have looked down on those very remote and rugged spaces
in Finland and we do infact have some equally remote and unlandable places in
the UK (try flying round all the remote Scottish islands), but it doesn't alter
the point that there are few landings where you are not either dead or able
to use a PLB. Two or three hundred euros invested in a Smartass is much more
likely to save your life than a similar amount spent on an ELT in addition to
a PLB.
>
> Much tempted by the idea of some more Aviation beer and Sauna in 2018.
> Regards,
David
>
> PS We shouldn't really get into a 'Mine's bigger than yours' sort of argument,
but I find that it is around 620nm from t to bottom of Finland and 660nm top
to bottom of UK!
>
> On 2017-11-01 21:09, Raimo Toivio wrote:
>
> Dear David, you are right as usually, but however, think about accident in the
remote place (and you have not launched your PLB),
> ELT is your only hope (if you happen to be alive) . I do understand that it is
not so easy to you to understand there are really unpopulated places in the
world.
>
> Like Finland. You have flown here a lot. Think.
>
> Really, all the pilots are not flying in the Great Britain!!!
>
> (which is a very little put populated - island somewhere).
>
> For example Me, after not-so-succesfull landing to any remote private strip
> here
with my monowheel.
> To my home strips, where there are people available from hundreds of meters.
They just look, maybe!!!
> Raimo has left his aircraft there, and same time I am loosing maybe my life!
In that case, ELT were superb.
>
> So far, I have had about 600 landings with my Mono, and still one prop
> (AirMaster).
>
> David, Im pretty sure You get it!
>
> Go on! I know you can have your burst!
>
> Or, maybe you need a real Finnish Sauna to get out your real Europa Mind?
>
> ***
> About me /my status:
>
> - my Europa OH-XRT is still not flyable but will be during early 2018 *
> - my Lamco OH-U666 (a bushplane) is flyable now finally after my crash one
> year
ago
> - my very Beloved Cesna OH-CVK (which I owned 1996-2012) is here back again.
> - my Antonov AN-2 HA-MDO is in Sweden, but it will be soon here.
>
> David,
> pls fly here duging The 2018 - the cows are away!
>
> Just land EFRT 12/30 or 03/21 if you like so.
>
> Raimo
> OH-XRT
> Finland
>
> davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo 20:58:
>
> Raimo, It's great to hear from you again! hope that your engine woes are
> sorted
and that we can look forward to more accounts of your fascinating flying
exploits.
>
> Although there is always great sense in what you say, in this context I would
take a slightly different approach. I would say there are two sorts of 'typical'
- firstly the sort of accident where you walk away from it and don't need
much in the way of help - or if you do then you are in a state to work your
mobile,
or your PLB assuming you have landed in orderly fashion either in mid ocean
or in a remote part of Finland (and there is plenty of that!). The other sort
of typical is sadly the sort of accident you do not walk away from and very
few of those are survived with or without an ELT. Sadly some 2% of us (i.e.
GA pilots in general) die from stall/spin accidents, entirely unsurviveable. My
plea would be for folk to address that possibility more seriously. Prevention
is the answer, not an ELT to get help more quickly after the event. There are
suggestions of how you can address this issue on the (beautiful new) club
website
in the 'Flying' section.
>
> Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
>
> On 2017-11-01 18:29, Raimo Toivio wrote:
>
> Hi Jon,
>
> I do agree.
>
> One more thing: PLB must be launched manually, but ELT should work
> automatically
after your critical impact.
>
> Its easy to imagine a situation where you have no time to switch on your PLB
or you even forget to do it during your possible more or less panic situation
>
> (when trying to survive out from your disaster).
>
> Whats a typical accident? Its during take off or landing. If shit happens
> then,
PLB is useless!
>
> PLB is very nice when you happen to lose your engine in the high up altitude,
or have made a succesfull emergency landing to the remote
>
> (thats potential for me, here in Finland, which is practically empty [wolves
will not call emergency, they just eat you]).
>
> I love my PLB also because I fly regularly over the sea between Finland and
> Sweden.
That flight is 1 hour over open seawater without islands.
>
> Of course I fly high up using typically my very favourite FL69 (Swedish female
ATC love my request to use it and thats why I have no Turbo),
>
> but in the case _of silence_ with my best glide ratio (1:17, w featherable
> VSuperb
AirMaster), I am able to glide say practically about 35 km in theory.
>
> So, there is still a cap almost 200 km = 45 min when its easy to monitor your
engine and listen strange sounds...
>
> (in a real life I put my autopilot on and start to listen hi-fi music through
my HS800 via B&O and usually sleep say half an hour).
>
> I would like to say:
>
> ELT is essential and PLB is a nice extra...
>
> (isnt it strange that what older you are, that more you are thinking things
> like
that, should be vice versa...) Cheers,
> Raimo
> Finland
> OH-XRT
> The fastest Europa ever build
> (and only 4-seater)
>
> italianjon kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo 17:30:
>
>
> Just to throw my thoughts on the ELT/PLB argument, as I have been debating for
a while on whether to get one. This information came from a VERY reliable
source,
someone who is involved in the SAR industry.
>
> For the record I had just a PLB, but I now have both.
>
> With an ELT action will always be taken, and it will be immediate, as they
> have
all information readily available through the registration authorities. On
a PLB, action will only be taken once it is a confirmed emergency.
>
> I have to admit I thought my leg was being pulled until I saw the forms. On
> the
ELT registration form that I completed, I only completed my details, and that
was it. WIth the PLB form I had to complete the contact details of three
additional
people who know my movements and can be contacted in the event that the
PLB is activated.
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474097#474097 [1]
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