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Re: Europa-List: Re: Landing mishap/ prop twist

Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Landing mishap/ prop twist
From: David Joyce <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 14:54:18

Duncan, when I wrote my article I was not able to come by 
any definition of twist so took the difference in pitch at 
tip and 1/3 radius. If you are measuring somewhere else 
then it isn't possible to make comparisons, but at the 
time Europa Warp drive blades were around 12 degrees 
measured thus.
Regards, David

  "Duncan & Ami" <ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net> wrote:
><ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net>
> 
> <<.whereas 12 degrees (your Warp drive blade)>>
> David the Warp has 19.5 degrees twist at 72" diameter, 
>as measured to the
> point that the undersurface no longer has a point that 
>is flat. All other
> incarnations of the Warp Drive come from the same mould 
>and are cut down to
> the required size. 
> Removing 5" from the tip of a Warp Drive takes off about 
>1.75 degree of
> twist; I have some tips spare if you'd like one!
> 
> Whilst this twist is measured from the point adjacent to 
>the root where the
> underside still has a flat area; it could be argued that 
>measuring from
> closer to the root where there is at least a 3:1 
>symmetrical airfoil section
> will indicate more twist.
> 
> Not forgetting that an asymmetrical aerofoil will need 
>at least a few
> degrees of negative incidence before it starts to 
>generate 'reverse thrust'.
> I agree that there's not enough!
> 
> The fixed pitch Arplast has more twist (about 22 
>degrees), and other
> versions (the faster VP blade) more still.
> 
> 
> 
> Duncan McF.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
>From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On 
>Behalf Of David Joyce
> Sent: 25 August 2012 12:20
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Landing mishap/ prop twist
> 
> 
> --> <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
> 
> Duncan, As all Europa props are close to 1600mm it makes 
> very little difference. The actual maths are set out in 
> the article 'Does propeller twist matter?' in Europa 
>Flyer 
> no 65 (available like all back numbers on the beautiful 
> new Europa Club website at 
> www.theeuropaclub.org/the-club/europa-flyer/ ).  For a 
> 1600mm prop, the amount of twist needed rises rapidly 
>from 
> 6 degrees at 20 kts to 24 at 100kts but then levels off 
>to 
> just 29 degrees at 160 kts before coming down somewhat 
>at 
> higher speeds. As the curve flattens out in the working 
> range an increase in diameter just moves you marginally 
> along this relatively flat segment.  In practice 26 
> degrees is within 3 degrees of optimal for speeds 
>between 
> 90 odd kts and 200+ kts, whereas 12 degrees (your Warp 
> drive blade) is optimal for sitting stationary on the 
> ground with the throttle half open (this giving an 
>airflow 
> of 40kts past the cock[pit!)
>         Regards, David
> 
> 
>  "Duncan & Ami" <ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net> wrote:
>><ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net>
>> 
>> You'll also need to measure the diameter for any
>>meaningful comparison;
>> generally, as diameter increases, the required overall
>>prop twist along the
>> blade needs to be slightly less. 
>> Then there's the fact that most manufactured blades in 
>>our class  of use
>> (e.g. Warp Drive, Arplast) start off as a larger 
>>diameter prop (with a
>> better amount of twist) which is then cut down to the 
>>required diameter.
>> This of course removes twist, usually to well below the 
>>optimum!
>> 
>> Duncan McF.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On
>>Behalf Of zwakie
>> Sent: 21 August 2012 20:57
>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Landing mishap - asking for
>>advise
>> 
>> 
>><mz@cariama.nl>
>> 
>> David, Graham and others,
>> 
>> I will take it upon myself to come up with the numbers
>>on the twist of the
>> Arplast PV50 and publish them here in due time.
>> 
>> --------
>> Marcel
>> (Europa Classic Tri-Gear PH-MZW)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Read this topic online here:
>> 
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381475#381475
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>Un/Subscription,
>>Forums!
>>Admin.
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>Un/Subscription,
>Forums!
>Admin.
> 
> 
> 



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