Bud-
OK, I looked at a few pictures, and it does appear to conflict at the area
of the pvc, but it appears to do so a certain ways out (rearward), and not
at the rear of the module. I should then be able to heat and bend it down
out of the way. Failing that, I will cut it at the module exit, and bend the
hose in some proper way. The aluminum tube should be fine, but I will bend
it down too while it is still accessible (down always appears to be the way
to move them, based on responses). I can confirm the time that metal fuel
lines take. I just wanted to have something that lasted forever in the
lesser accessible parts of the module. After flying the completed Europa for
awhile and if ever wanting to build another, I probably would build MUCH
faster, and skip the aluminum hassle (or maybe not..knowing me -ARGH!!).
Thanks for the notice on tail sag. I will need to keep an eye out for that.
Some of your order of procedures I have not gotten to yet, to think about,
so will take them to heart.
I might still "nail" the hose to the bottom, and use the pvc as electrical
conduit. It is very enticing. Also, my cradle should work fine for support
through the gear project. With strapping, it should support certain angles
(not too large) of tipping. Chuck Popenoe's cradle appears to support the
fuselage quite well. If I had my hands on the dimensions of his rig before I
built mine, that would have been a good route to go.
Thanks to all for your help, I think that my problem is safely answered.
Greg
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ALAN YERLY
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 6:41 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel line position exiting the cockpit module
Greg,
The flap tube conflict appears to be just about where your PVC comes out.
Don't fear putting wiring on the floor with the other lines. I never use
metal fuel lines as it is too much time. OK if you have it. Don't get too
carried away about what sleeve material is best for your rudder cables,
Nylaflow or Nyloseal sold through A/C Spruce is great.
As far as jigging, first, I have a lot of room in my shop for jigging a
plane for a couple of weeks. What you described is exactly what can be
used. For a Tri-gear jigging the aircraft can be nothing more than a flat
table (set the table height at about 20 inches so you can get the gear on)
or use one of the on line ideas you have seen before, and secure it to the
floor with the fuselage bottom secured to support the center of the module.
I have a steel frame but wood will do. Ensure the wing pins are level, and
secure the center cockpit section to the table. A simple tail support of
ply will keep the tail from sagging. Use a string to make sure the bottom
canoe is not sagging. Do your best at installing the rear bulkhead and tail
torque tube square and level. I use a 1x4 with a 1.5 inch half moon cut in
it to ease one end or both ends of the torque tube dead level if you suspect
your canoe is warped, and recheck it is square with the wing bolts. I also
mark the floor with the centerline to aid in the install of the gear.
Always remember to look ahead to ensure the cross tie bar is clear in the
rear when installing the gear. I shim and bond the gear alignment angle to
the floor and square the gear and install it. Then rig the wings and
install the cross member. (Many tri-gears were put on the gear first, then
the wings rigged. Level the aircraft with steel tubes stuck in the end of
the axel and secure on blocks bondoed to the floor or if you are careful
chock the wheels and use wing jigs to ensure the wings are straight...)
Once the gear are good, pull them out if you want and the jig and rig the
flaps. Then back to the tail to finish up that and get the top fitted. Fit
the top and align the tail to vertical. That needs a plumb bob hung over
the tail post sighted down the corner made in the back of the tail post and
finish clecoing the top. You could put the plane on its gear now and roll
it around, plus make your lower access hole at this time... Take it apart
and finish the inside of the canoe. Your careful jig alignment early on
will almost guarantee it will stay where it should. Maybe a little stick
under the torque tube and a small amount of pressure will be necessary to
get it all perfect on final gluing, but it will work.
The reason the book calls for the top to be put on is less time is loss in
jigging the plane. The top jigs it reasonably straight. But it's a pain in
the chest, back, head and elbows. If your space is limited, and you must
move the plane so the wife can get the car in for work on Monday, then
following the procedure above means resetting your jig. That's time
consuming. If your jig is on rollers, mark the floor or make bondo dimples
to hold the wheels or some bolt heads that screw down marks on the floor to
reset the jig for weekend work.
Gotta go to work,
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Fuchs <mailto:gregoryf.flyboy@comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 2:46 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel line position exiting the cockpit module
Hi Bud,
Thanks for the response. I used aluminum tubing for the long runs, and high
quality, high pressure (Gates) rubber for the tank outputs to tank switch
valve, and the one short run from the tank switch valve to the 2 pumps. That
is what the thin-walled pvc tubing was for, so that the hose can be easily
rethreaded in 5 years (or whenever), and keep it away from the
tight-clearance (roll and pitch) controls. I have been considering putting
the fuel supply hose on the floor instead, and using the pvc 'conduit' for
electrical purposes, (especially since it is higher than the fuel lines).
For the aluminum tubing anchor points, I cut short pieces of the 3/8"
aluminum tubing, and flared them, to create a base for the araldite/flox
that would hold it to the glass, and drilled holes in the other end, to be
used for a quality tie-wrap(which uses metal in the locking mechanism, and a
short piece of the Gates 3/8" hose used as a rubber standoff. It is a
relatively lightweight solution (compared to some), and seems to work well.
Of course, since I have gone to the trouble to fabricate stand-offs for the
fuel line, I think I will leave the aluminum runs where they are. You are
right, it is too late :-).
Thanks for the detailed notes on the order of procedure. I had planned to
install almost everything before the top went on, too. It does seem like
crawling around the back would be a hateful job. The pitch bulkhead is
installed, already. If there is any twist in the tail (I have made
measurements, but will be re-verifying again), I am hoping that getting
everything true, it will hold that way, after temporarily clecoing the top
on. Once done, I should be able to de-cleco, and do the rest of the work.
Upon re-clecoing, it should be pulled back into proper position (I hope). My
rudder cable will require about another 15 to 20 degrees of change, and I
might use UHDMW (Ultra High Density Molecular Weight?) material, with a
radius of 2.5" minimum, for the cable to rub on (I have heard it is very
slick), or another pulley. This would keep the rudder cable lower in the
module, and free up the space higher up, but I am going to leave it for
later, to find the optimum position based on where the engine cage and any
other possible items will affect the routing. If all this does not work, my
contingency plan is to use similar cable-size sheathed brake cable of the
type used for motorcycles. It can be custom made, and no worries about
anything being rubbed on this way, and the weight is not much more, in my
estimation, especially if it is used just to get through the controls and
the fuel tank. But that probably will not happen. The first solutions will
most likely work just fine.
Questions: When you talk about "jigging" the fuselage, what are you thinking
about? Clecoing on the top fuselage, and getting everything lined up could
be considered a type of jig, or are you thinking of a tail-twister (torquer)
as a jig, to correct for any potential twist in the tail? I am using about 6
old shelf planks, with cutouts that simulate the shape of the bottom of the
fuselage, to support it along the bottom, with 3 castoring wheels, to roll
it around with ease. Maybe this is the type of jig you speak of???
By the way, if anyone (or you too, Bud) could let me know if the aluminum
line and tube look like they might hit the flap tube (my question is still
outstanding), let me know. I am just trying to get a 'feel' for their exit
out the back of the module, and I think I can modify the odds of them being
a problem, by bending or repositioning them now(while I easily can), before
the module gets stuck down. I am feeling too lazy to get out all of the flap
parts, position them, and finding out for myself. It is also made a bit more
difficult, since the hinge line is below the lower fuselage wall. It is a
little hard to judge with the 2D picture, and if that is the case, then I
understand. I will find a way to forge ahead.
Regards, and thanks to all,
Greg
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ALAN YERLY
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel line position exiting the cockpit module
Wished you would have asked earlier.
Just wire tie the fuel lines neatly to the floor. The gear and flap is
normally installed and I fit the baggage bay in before I run the lines. I
jig the fuselage well and don't put on the top until all the work in the
rear is done. I hate crawling back in the back. Better to jig the fuselage
properly, ensure it is square. Then put in the flight control rods, tail
tube, pitch bulkhead, gear, flaps, rudder cables, autopilots, wiring,
antennas, fuel system, batteries and other stuff in the back, then fit the
top. Makes all those lines and fittings etc. much easier to de-conflict. I
sheath my rudder cables when I can with 1/4 or 3/16 poly tube (like on the
brakes) to guide them through the saddle area to make sure the fuel lines,
wires, etc. don't interfere.
Keep it light and simple, PVC can be heavy if you use it a lot. Those who
put the top on before all the junk is in, have bruises and another 200 hours
of work.
Just a thought.
Bud Yerly
Custom Flight Creations
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Fuchs <mailto:gregoryf.flyboy@comcast.net>
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 6:04 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Fuel line position exiting the cockpit module
To the Gurus that came earlier:
It seems that the fuel lines exiting the back of the module might come into
contact (or get close) with the flap control tube. Without going through the
hassle of dimensioning the flap system to find out, what do you think is the
best way to handle this?
I could cut the plastic guide-tube at exit, and bend the aluminum fuel
tubing down and to port, or bend both. Will this work? Any other ideas?
BTW, I have a Europa Tri-gear with electric flap positioning.
Thanks for any direction to follow or consider,
Greg Fuchs, A050
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List";>http://www.matronhref
"http://forums.matronics.com";>http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution";>http://www.matronics.com/c
|