Not sure what led you to believe we have a Trigear. G-LABS is one of the
original Classic monos - Kit 49.
In fact we have Ivan Shaws original Rotax 912 engine out of G-YURO. You
could call it son of YURO !!!
As regards the flaps question I totally agree that you need to get rid of as
much drag as possible as soon as possible. However a full retraction of the
flaps will cause the aircraft to sink (anything up to 100ft). I was warned
by a very experienced pilot that this was not a clever thing to do
especially at 200ft.
The other problem with retracting early (especially if you compromise and
only half retract) is that should the engine stop, you are likely to forget
you retracted and set yourself up for wheels up landing (or crash if
applicable).
I would say the safest height you should raise the gear is about 300ft and
in any event I would rather concentrate on flying the plane and seeing where
we are going. As G-LABS is somewhat underpowered I have to keep the nose
well down to build up speed (65kts) before commencing the climb.
I always assume there is a chance the engine could stop and on a nil wind
day it is not uncommon to cross the airfield boundary at 300ft. I would
NEVER consider turning back under such circumstances. As soon as the
aircraft is airborne and manouverable I point it at the nearest open space/
field (subject to where the gliders are launching and the location of the
winch).
Carl Pattinson
G-LABS
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 9:04 PM
Subject: *** SPAM *** Re: Europa-List: Europa Incident - 180 turns
> <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
>
> Carl, You may have a trigear which makes some difference to my thoughts on
> this question, which are for what they are worth that it makes sense to
> get
> the flaps up as soon as you have reasonable speed (for me 60kts). In my
> mono
> I can climb at probably four times the rate when flaps are up compared
> with
> flaps down, so that the time that I spend in that awkward height band
> where
> you can only land ahead (even if you don't like any of what's ahead) is
> drastically reduced. Regards, David Joyce G-XSDJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Carl Pattinson" <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 11:54 AM
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Incident - 180 turns
>
>
> Based on my experience of takeoff in the Europa (we only have the 80hp
> Fixed
> pitch) airspeed will only be in the region of 65 knots at this stage flaps
> down (we dont retract the flaps till 500 feet) .The steep bank that would
> be
> required for a 180 degree turn at such a height would almost certainly
> result the inboard wing stalling with inevitable results.
>
> Glider pilots who have practiced winch failures at such a low height will
> know that 180 degree turns are killers. Anything under 500 feet and the
> only
> safe option is to land sraight ahead - sometimes a 90 degree turn may be
> possible if the field is large enough.
>
> While its impossible to predict the outcome of landing ahead even in shrub
> or bush the likelyhood is that the occupants of a Europa crash would walk
> away from it. Such a crash occurred about three years ago in Alderney -
> (Channel Islands) and the occupants survived with few injuries.
>
> Carl Pattinson
> G-LABS
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: William Harrison
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 10:56 AM
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Incident - 180 turns
>
>
> Who knows what all the factors were in this tragic incident. However, it
> highlights the issue of turning back to the runway. John Brownlow, who did
> my conversion training for the Europa, told/showed me that you can do a
> safe
> 180 turn back from 300 feet (much lower than for many types). I practised
> a
> few times. I think I'll practise a few more times.
>
>
> The early news reports suggested that the crash aircraft was between 200
> and 300 feet when it turned back.
>
>
> Willie
>
>
> On 19 Jun 2007, at 01:45, Tom Friedland wrote:
>
>
> A bit of information. Ken was very experienced and an airforce c-130
> pilot/instructor. He flew his Europa frequently like once a week.
>
> He took off West into the prevailing wind and to the West there is a
> large golf course under the approach to the runway. The crash site is
> between the runway and the golf course.
>
> It seems strange. A pilot with his experience and one would think if
> he
> had an engine failure that he would elect the natural emegency site ahead.
> Can that mean that there was a control failure or perhaps a sudden medical
> cause? We may never know.
>
> Tom
>
>
> On 6/18/07, Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com> wrote:
> Dave and Dale,
>
> I offer my most sincere condolences to you and all the friends and
> family of Ken Hill and his passenger. Since you two appear to have
> had
> personal relationships with Ken, I hope you will continue to share
> any
> information on the accident with the Europa community.
>
> Fred
>
> >
> > After reading about the crash, I called my friend Ken Hill who
> flies
> > out of Livermore. His wife Sandy, who was sobbing, told me it
> was,
> > in fact, her husband Ken who had died in the crash. Ken was a
> > terrific guy, former military pilot with a lot of hours. Another
> > terrible loss.
> > Dale Hetrick
>
> On Sunday, June 17, 2007, at 09:44 AM, David DeFord wrote:
>
> > Mike,
> >
> > Ken had long range tanks, which could have been installed at the
> time
> > of the crash. Here is a description of the tanks, which he posted
> > about a year ago:
> >
> > The tanks are 6 gal. Evinrude Johnson "Duratank" from the local
> boat
> > dealer. I use quick disconnect fittings from Europa and the pump is
> > Facet 40105 from Aircraft Spruce. The tanks are strapped to the
> wing
> > tie bar for restraint.
> >
> > I last saw Ken's airplane in his garage about a year ago, not long
> > after his return from a long trip, and the tanks were in the
> airplane
> > at that time. Whether he left them thereat all times, I don't know,
> > nor can I comment on the crash worthiness of the tie-downs he used
> to
> > hold them in place. I am only suggesting that the fire in this
> > accident might not be representative of what is likely to happen to
> > other Europas in a similar crash. (Third-hand accounts I have heard
> > of the accident say that the impact was nearly vertical.)
> >
> > Dave DeFord
> > N135TD
>
> --
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