Thank you Mark for your reply however I have corrected some of your
statements and added some further info to back up my original email.
I wish to make it clear that I do not have a "personal vendetta" with Europa
or believe they have one with me.
Far from it, I still have a soft spot for both the company and the aircraft
and if my personal circumstances had not changed I would still be building
G-SAMY (kit no 221).
I agree this forum is not the place to carry on this conversation but in
view of a few very public comments you chose to make below regarding the kit
which I still am trying to sell, I feel I need to copy a reply to the same
public forum.
Sorry to the fellow Europhiles - please delete this message now if the
thread is of no interest to you.
My corrections and comments are embedded in Mark's email below (prefixed
with KTALLENT -)
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Waite <Mark@europa-aircraft.com>
<rich_butler2@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Europa Stage One for sale
> Dear Keith,
>
> I'm sorry to hear you feel so bitter about company pricing policy. I'm
also sorry that you feel you have to "warn" other people against trying to
sell their part complete kits in case they also suffer at the hands of this
"policy". I can honestly assure you, and other Europa builders, that we have
not "devised" a scheme to prevent people like yourself from selling their
part completed kits.
KTALLENT > Mark I believe you have completely twisted my original email
here - of the above quotes only "policy" was in my original email (where did
"warn" and "devised" come from?). I did not say I was bitter merely
"disillusioned".
> When the three-stage deal was dropped in favour of the three-equal payment
option (and with the benefit of hindsight) it should have been anticipated
that customers needing to sell their stage one's would find it difficult
because they had a disproportionate amount of money invested - i.e. a kit
initially consisting of mainly blue foam components. If this does happen
though, all is not lost, because, providing a new buyer is found within
twelve months - the term of price protection for the three-equal payment
option - we can transfer the balance of the agreement. Incidentally, you may
be interested to know that, of the 350 plus customer survey responses
received, not one person complained about our pricing policy.
>
KTALLENT - the 12 months clause is the killer in the above policy any
builder (not buyer) will know that.
In fact your statement above more or less backs up my original email and
what I was trying to say.
> Builders reading your e-mail may get the impression there is a personal
vendetta to prevent you from selling your stage one. This is absolutely not
the case. Of the people you refer to, some have contacted me for additional
pricing information and at no stage have I dissuaded them from buying from
you, in fact the opposite is true. I want to see you sell it so that the
buyer will come to me for wing and fuselage stages.
>
KTALLENT - Do Europa have an unfinished kit section on their website - if
your statements hold true then surely the company would be actively trying
to sell these unfinished kits to get the remaining stage payments and also
get the ratio of kits sold to kits flying up?
Are sales comissions paid on initial kit sales or individual stage build
sales?
>What you fail to recognise is that most of the people who have contacted
you so far actually came to me first. Would you advocate me sending all my
potential customers to you until one of them buys your kit? Probably not.
And that is the problem isn't it? where do I draw the line. I did have one
customer tell me he was going to order a kit from me - until he saw your
advert. He figured he could save money by buying your tail-kit and the wings
and fuselage from me. Obviously I didn't want to lose my potential sale and
so we agreed a small concession - certainly not the huge discount you
describe.
>
KTALLENT - Not true - I have spent over GBP500 so far advertising my kit in
aviation magazines and on websites - I have directed ALL my prospective
buyers to the factory and also provided them with the written quote of
GBP13,945 that Toni gave me in August of 2001 for the remaining 2 stages of
the kit - some of these people have got back to me saying they were quoted
higher prices for the remaining stages so they did not wish to continue - of
course they could be lying to me.
>Another of my customers looked at your kit but came back to me saying that
he wasn't convinced by the quality of the work and would prefer to do it
himself - thereby guaranteeing it was done right - his words not mine. I
even told him that, with all PFA inspections complete, he need not worry.
>
KTALLENT - thanks for the above statement regarding my kit Mark, I don't
think it was really needed in the context of this reply on a public forum -
it is this statement that prompted my forum reply.
> You refer to 'high prices' being quoted for the remainder of the kit. This
is absolutely not the case, we have a standard list price for wings and
fuselage kits and that is what has been quoted. Someone buying your
completed stage one kit at the asking price of GBP2500 would save GBP2905
off the list price of a fast build Tri-gear kit.
>
KTALLENT - I don't understand the above statement or point you were trying
to make - all I can say is that I have a written (email) quote from
yourselves dated 07/08/01 saying the the remaining 2 stages of my kit would
be GBP13,945 - that email I have passed on to all my prospective buyers.
> I don't know how much you paid for your stage one kit because you bought
it second-hand from a private seller. What I can tell you is that when your
kit was sold to the original owner way back in 1995 the list price was
GBP3378 including VAT. That means that even if you paid the original selling
price, re-selling at GBP2500 you will only lose you GBP878. Now I know that
the value of money is relative but I hardly think it qualifies as an
expensive nightmare and justification for such a condemnation of company
policy on an open forum.
>
KTALLENT - If you pull my file you will see that in addition to the above
stage one kit purchased I also purchased from yourselves the XS upgrade
kit - approx GBP760,
in addition the kit is CAA registered - another GBP250,
workshop outfitting and tooling costs - another GBP1000,
2 years (stage 1) build time - another GBP???
Kit advertisments - another GBP500
Now GBP5500+ out of pocket may not be a lot of money to you but I can
assure you it is to me - you also forget I have not (read cannot) resell the
kit, (hence the original email) so I don't have the +GBP2500 figure you use
in your above calcs.
> You and I have discussed this before and obviously you are still not happy
with the state of things. Rather than clog up the forum with further
exchanges, can I suggest you telephone or e-mail me directly.
>
> Yours sincerely
> Mark A.Waite
> Sales Director
> Europa Management (International) Ltd
>
>
> >>> "Keith Tallent" <ktallent@avnet.co.uk> 02/23/02 03:49pm >>>
> Hi Rich
> I don't want to worry you but I have had my stage one fast build for sale
> for best part of a year now (kit inlcudes everything from books and videos
> right down to the digitalscales and workbench).
> Incomplete stage build kits are almost impossible to sell thanks to
factory
> policy ( I have found out that I am not alone).
> I have had no less than 7 buyers who have now pulled out after talking to
> the factory (the latest one being last weekend after having the van booked
> ready to pick it up).
> They have either been persuaded to buy a new kit from the factory at a
> heavily discounted price or been put off buying all together by high
prices
> being
> quoted to them for the remainder of my kit.
> Maybe you will be lucky.
> For your info my kit price has been advertised as best offer over 2500
for
> some time but I am now accepting ANYoffers.
> I am also considering selling the kit piece meal as I have a buyer for the
> rudder!
> I have even considered a ceremonial burning with press call but I don't
> really want to lower myself to that!
>
> As you can tell I am very disillusioned by the whole thing but I wish you
> luck.
>
> Keith Tallent
> Ex builder no 221
> (The dream has turned into an expensive nightmare!)
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rich Butler <rich_butler2@hotmail.com>
> Subject: Europa Stage One for sale
>
>
> > For Sale:
> > Europa Stage One (Tail section, rudder)
> > Fast-Build option (pre-skinned)
> > If anyone is interested, please E-Mail me at
> > Rich_Butler2@hotmail.com
>
>
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