Delivered-To: europa.archive@gmail.com Received: from imap.gmail.com [142.251.179.109] by aws.sarangan.org with IMAP (fetchmail-6.4.37) for (single-drop); Wed, 08 Nov 2023 12:37:51 -0500 (EST) Received: by 2002:a0c:ac04:0:b0:66c:ec3b:2e7c with SMTP id l4csp551050qvb; Wed, 8 Nov 2023 09:37:46 -0800 (PST) X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHpOiRYycz16NmumeOqTJ57jt3rTt07qkPy8Z/UJG8XzgW5WLiufCiXhPhg8JV+YuVuI4/H X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:3e87:b0:281:d55:6fe8 with SMTP id rj7-20020a17090b3e8700b002810d556fe8mr2177625pjb.24.1699465065873; Wed, 08 Nov 2023 09:37:45 -0800 (PST) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1699465065; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=mVTU6DtfIyagcuswtfCS27wVKjqr3TKH4E6zSfifu9Bf4iTTQEcaaT0JjT8+L6NJdN rTWJWmwDBDRv0/MafgerMAjCFo/gsT/lC8EDVNBDqTCz9t7NXL9mP+Njzwo+nbhBqSGP H6sa5c2qoQRquolk/Zv0mG8rNw1X4kVzf77jqRCH6c+OMiodeC9rUNkF9cGu7L7qeKeo pbqAJONxO4R1HVBHQsjAGT9hvl/KOhPEqibbZEiFlHWL70T4NHuGPoCtW+2yjJLcdpzq eXzZ3NPlO+caz40h46C4JMhOacoqTAFsD8Ru135vxF1SXNypVtPW/HJQbQyIrPEwPL/u gb4Q== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=reply-to:precedence:sender:mime-version:message-id:date:subject:to :from; bh=bwl6ClppQHhDIIRF1odgnGB8LDcEtWcvoFi4RL6jLPc=; fh=TtRabXnAZcz4NxrJRbsgVDdHYZRt+FpBYJp4xASTi6w=; b=k8pcWQ6XhxfqAnzcd4kNLQx80h4pZWAZUsAPhAL2qj5x//5YT+jqbVc/J4FX80cvCT VVp1nnMzecJkdcReihqdcNNN8/YFQu1/htjV96fQuahc1HNB2EaxkatOKr2lU5ePJbth ujtMa5B0Of1T3WLxTM44VP43sM1bzgeg51RaLerKEQwnMKx5Oy0+BuHGxiYnro0JuPrS QJCTsnc/+k140Go8uDXD+kn+n+otvHP0XDsdTEcSJ89Fq9qYrmt6ZZwUONwt7Ks3Niq4 RAoM7XTXM44Ej8PP/22LeBTxiPmKNU7OuYKG8YAuh6AZdybaf2V5dygzcfZ5Kv9yIv5G VI3A== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com designates 96.68.171.19 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com Return-Path: Received: from matronics.com (mail19.matronics.com. [96.68.171.19]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id ck18-20020a17090afe1200b0027cdee52324si2568992pjb.74.2023.11.08.09.37.45; Wed, 08 Nov 2023 09:37:45 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com designates 96.68.171.19 as permitted sender) client-ip=96.68.171.19; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com designates 96.68.171.19 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com Received: from mail.matronics.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by matronics.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 3A8HZg6C000430 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2023 09:35:42 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.matronics.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id 3A8HZgpL000421 for europa-list-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 2023 09:35:42 -0800 From: "dpc@knightonweb.com" To: "europa-list@matronics.com" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Cooling impact of using firesleeve on oil lines Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2023 17:06:41 +0000 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CWLP123MB4212C464FD9CB67890915CD0F8A8ACWLP123MB4212GBRP_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com Precedence: firstclass Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com --> Europa-List message posted by: "dpc@knightonweb.com" --_000_CWLP123MB4212C464FD9CB67890915CD0F8A8ACWLP123MB4212GBRP_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Interesting, Mike. Mine is a Europa Classic with the 80hp 912. It does have the very small coo= ling intakes. Since the oil cooler sits behind the port radiator, I was concerned that th= e extra =91blanking=92 created by the larger cooler might prove to be a pro= blem with the water cooling but that doesn=92t appear to have happened. Bef= ore changing the oil cooler, I did try carefully straightening out all the = bent and damaged fins on the radiator and cleaning out the bugs in the hope= that that might have helped improve the airflow through the radiator and o= n into the oil cooler. Disappointingly it didn=92t seem to help at all, and= my initial impression was that my radiator cleaning attempts may have made= matters worse! Because of that, I did start down the road of looking at re= placing the port radiator or getting it re-cored to improve airflow =96 but= I found both options would have been very expensive. I was very glad that = none of that seemed to be necessary when the bigger oil cooler fixed the oi= l temp problem straight away and without seeming to create any noticeable r= ise in the water temps (which had never been a problem anyway). It seems to me that my =91winter maintenance=92 addition of the fire-sleeve= to the oil lines was really the only change I had made from last year=92s = configuration that might have contributed to the oil temp problem seen this= year, so removing the sleeves was to have been my next course of action. H= owever, now that the oil temps have come down so much more than expected, I= =92m planning to leave the sleeves in place so will probably never know wha= t they did or didn=92t do to the oil temps! I wonder if you really need any kind of oil cooler on the back of your radi= ator now that you have an oil cooler in its own, much better chin location?= Could you try removing the 8-row one entirely from the radiator and seeing= if you=92d still have OK oil temps just using your large chin cooler? The other wisdom I have picked up from many other useful contributors to th= is whole issue is the importance of air exit area, as well as to ensuring t= hat all incoming air goes through the radiators and not round their edges. = When we were in the midst of our major oil overheating problems, and away f= rom base on a very hot day, we managed to get by through packing washers un= der the bottom edge of the lower cowl to increase air exit area, as well as= using foil tape to seal the edges of the radiators to the cowl. That made = just enough of a difference to keep us going and get us home! If you need a 10-row oil cooler to play with then let me know, as mine is n= ow redundant! David G-BWJH From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Mike Date: Wednesday, 8 November 2023 at 16:21 To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Cooling impact of using firesleeve on oil lin= es --> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike" Hello David I haven't been following this but looking at what you have done I am please= d that it worked for you. I am unsure what engine you have but when I changed mine from 80HP to 100 HP as I half expected I immediately encountered oil cooling problems so fitted a chin inlet and located a larger oil cooler there removing the one behind the port radiator. This helped but did not solve the problem. At this point I fitted the 16 row as you have (in addition to the chin radiator), this solved the oil issue but promptly gave me water temp problems! I have now changed the 16 row for an 8 row which has still cured the oil issue and although the water temp issue is better it is not entirely cured. I am now considering whether a re- core of the water radiators might help. Just as a matter of interest I have not fitted firesleeve to any of my oil lines thinking that this would result in the maximum radiated heat. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Davidcripps Sent: 08 November 2023 15:26 To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: Europa-List: Re: Cooling impact of using firesleeve on oil lines --> Europa-List message posted by: "Davidcripps" Here are a couple of photos of the new 16-row Mocal oil cooler installed on the back of the port radiator. Works a treat! PS. Glass wrap around exhaust has now been removed. It was only there as a 'back-up' as new oil cooler is much closer to the exhaust stub than before, but this hasn't seemed to caus= e any problems with the oil cooling. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3D511952#511952 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/new_oil_cooler_mounted_and_installed_656= . jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/original_oil_cooler_mounted_on_radiator_= 8 83.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/new_oil_cooler_mounted_on_radiator_179.j= p g http://forums.matronics.com//files/new_oil_cooler_side_view_212.jpg --_000_CWLP123MB4212C464FD9CB67890915CD0F8A8ACWLP123MB4212GBRP_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Interesting, Mike.

 

Mine is a Europa Classic with the 80hp 912. It does have the very s= mall cooling intakes.

 

Since the oil cooler sits behind the port radiator, I was concerned= that the extra =91blanking=92 created by the larger cooler might prove to = be a problem with the water cooling but that doesn=92t appear to have happened. Before changing the oil cooler, I = did try carefully straightening out all the bent and damaged fins on the ra= diator and cleaning out the bugs in the hope that that might have helped im= prove the airflow through the radiator and on into the oil cooler. Disappointingly it didn=92t seem to help at al= l, and my initial impression was that my radiator cleaning attempts may hav= e made matters worse! Because of that, I did start down the road of looking= at replacing the port radiator or getting it re-cored to improve airflow =96 but I found both options would = have been very expensive. I was very glad that none of that seemed to be ne= cessary when the bigger oil cooler fixed the oil temp problem straight away= and without seeming to create any noticeable rise in the water temps (which had never been a problem anyway)= .

 

It seems to me that my =91winter maintenance=92 addition of the fir= e-sleeve to the oil lines was really the only change I had made from last y= ear=92s configuration that might have contributed to the oil temp problem seen this year, so removing the sleeves was to hav= e been my next course of action. However, now that the oil temps have come = down so much more than expected, I=92m planning to leave the sleeves in pla= ce so will probably never know what they did or didn=92t do to the oil temps!

 

I wonder if you really need any kind of oil cooler on the back of y= our radiator now that you have an oil cooler in its own, much better chin l= ocation? Could you try removing the 8-row one entirely from the radiator and seeing if you=92d still have OK o= il temps just using your large chin cooler?

 

The other wisdom I have picked up from many other useful contributo= rs to this whole issue is the importance of air exit area, as well as to en= suring that all incoming air goes through the radiators and not round their edges. When we were in the midst of our = major oil overheating problems, and away from base on a very hot day, we ma= naged to get by through packing washers under the bottom edge of the lower = cowl to increase air exit area, as well as using foil tape to seal the edges of the radiators to the cowl.= That made just enough of a difference to keep us going and get us home!

 

If you need a 10-row oil cooler to play with then let me know, as m= ine is now redundant!

 

David

G-BWJH

 

 

From: owner-europa-list-s= erver@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com> on behal= f of Mike <mike@nyumba.co.uk>
Date: Wednesday, 8 November 2023 at 16:21
To: europa-list@matronics.com <europa-list@matronics.com>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Cooling impact of using firesleeve on = oil lines

--> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike" <mike= @nyumba.co.uk>

Hello David
I haven't been following this but looking at what you have done I am please= d
that it worked for you. I am unsure what engine you have but when I changed=
mine from  80HP to 100 HP as I half expected I immediately encountered= oil
cooling problems so fitted a chin inlet and located a larger oil cooler
there removing the one behind the port radiator. This helped but did not solve the problem. At this point I fitted the 16 row as you have (in
addition to the chin radiator), this solved the oil issue but promptly gave=
me water temp problems!
I have now changed the 16 row for an 8 row which has still cured the oil issue and although the water temp issue is better it is not entirely cured.=
I am now considering whether a re- core of the water radiators might help.<= br> Just as a matter of interest I have not fitted firesleeve to any of my oil<= br> lines thinking that this would result in the maximum radiated heat.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-eur= opa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Davidcripps
Sent: 08 November 2023 15:26
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Cooling impact of using firesleeve on oil lines
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Davidcripps" <dpc@knigh= tonweb.com>

Here are a couple of photos of the new 16-row Mocal oil cooler installed on=
the back of the port radiator. Works a treat! PS. Glass wrap around exhaust=
has now been removed. It was only there as a 'back-up' as new oil cooler is=
much closer to the exhaust stub than before, but this hasn't seemed to caus= e
any problems with the oil cooling.




Read this topic online here:

htt= p://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3D511952#511952




Attachments:

http://forums.matronics.com//files/new_oil_cooler_mounted_and_i= nstalled_656.
jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/original_oil_cooler_mounted= _on_radiator_8
83.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/new_oil_cooler_mounted_on_r= adiator_179.jp
g
http://forums.matronics.com//files/new_oil_cooler_side_view_212.jpg=






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